Oriental Mind Secrets – Geoffrey Interview with James Brown #1

Oriental Mind Secrets – Geoffrey Interview with James Brown #1 December 22, 2007

Posted by Geoffrey Wilson in : Health Tips, Interview Transcripts, Personal Freedom, Philosophy, Psychology, Wisdom Notes , trackback

ORIENTAL MIND SECRETS

‘From the Top’

1st Interview between Geoffrey Wilson and James Brown

Geoffrey Wilson (Copyright September 2007)

INT. OFFICE — CONTINUOUS
(JB to listeners)
JB
Hello everybody and welcome to oriental mind secrets, an audio series designed to provide you the listener with access to the amazing work of Geoffrey Wilson – author of a remarkable distance learning course on oriental
psychology.

(JB to Geoff)
JB (CONT’D)
And hello to you, Geoff. What’s happening down under?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The weather here in Sydney is gorgeous at the moment – but we’re not here for the weather, are we JB? We’re here to talk about oriental mind secrets.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
I miss the Sydney weather to be honest, Geoff. You can’t tell me morning meditations followed by a walk on the beach aren’t to die for?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
You’ve got a point JB. That’s how my days start when the sun is out. I’m a lucky man.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Some people say we make our luck, Geoff. What’s your take on luck?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Good question. I think there are two aspects to luck really. One aspect is staying true to your vision.

(MORE)
2.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
When you stay true to your vision and your spiritual plan, your heart energy aligns with your higher soul purpose. Amazing things happen as a result. The second aspect of luck is that good fortune seems to smile on those who are favoured by the grace of God – that little piece of serendipity that comes the way of people who consciously live in
such a way that the laws of cause and effect are respected and followed. Living in this way, the interval between cause and effect never gets too wide – which means there are fewer messes to clean up – unnecessary time is
therefore not spent on doing things that are not productive.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
So what you are saying is that everybody is capable of receiving their fair share of luck as long as they abide by the spiritual rules.

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Precisely. Another way of saying much the same thing is to suggest the term ‘creative living’. When we live creatively, fear is removed as a response to the challenges we face – and in its place, we discover that the vision is everything. When you live in your vision, your heart automatically governs proceedings – in other words, your thoughts and feelings are elevated to perform a more spiritually aligned function in keeping with a higher purpose.
When this purpose is shared, we discover we aren’t alone.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
On that note then Geoff, how do you see your purpose?

(Geoff to JB)
3.
GEOFF
It has evolved over time I think, JB. Initially, I was immersed in the process of learning what oriental medicine actually is – how it operates, the principles, the art. Once, I became comfortable with my relationship to it, I began to explore outside of the box. I discovered that oriental medicine provides a template for the cultivation and refinement of the complete human being – and that within its structure, it is possible to bring the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects together holistically. I tested this out in the clinic, in the classroom, in every conceivable way. And I learned that in general, people are not aware of the mind,body,spirit connection on a
deep level – that is, as far as it determines their experience of health, balance, and harmony. So as far as purpose goes now, I see myself expanding on playing an educational role. One of the avenues for presenting material
is through seminars and classes. Another avenue that I’m becoming increasingly more interested in is television – presenting holistic medicine in a stimulating and visual way. And of course, distance education is the way of
the future.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
I think you are right, Geoff. The indications certainly are that ‘e learning’ is gaining in popularity. What was it like to design the oriental psychology course? What factors did you have to consider?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
I’ve been involved in curriculum development since 1988. The technical aspects of writing curriculum are straight forward. What I really wanted to do with writing an e course though, was to design the program in such a

(MORE)
4.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
way that students would be able to get as close as possible to a classroom situation. To do that it was necessary to include stimulating and exciting learning activities that supported their reading. The most important element however, was the selection of the material to be used. The fields of oriental philosophy and medicine are huge – they are literally worlds within worlds. I wanted to make sure there was plenty of reference to the classics -
especially the I-Ching, the Chuang Tzu, the Wu Chen Pi’en, the Huinanzi, and the Art of War.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
What is it about those classics in particular that led to them being included in the course? Let’s start with the I-Ching.

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The I-Ching is a book of ancient Chinese wisdom and contains the secrets of 64 spiritual principles – keys to successful living – as it were. And successful living depends on self-mastery.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
The Chuang Tzu is a mysterious book thought by some to contain nothing but riddles. Is this true?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The Chuang Tzu is one of my absolute favourites. In a sense, it is a book of riddles and quite difficult to comprehend without a background in oriental thinking or spiritual practices. It exposes the human condition, sets aside illusions, and does this through storytelling. The book is full of brilliant anecdotes, tales, and stories that are as relevant today as

(MORE)
5.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
they were when they were written, several thousand years ago. Some of the stories in fact are used in modern psychology as a reference – the famous butterfly dream being a good example.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
What is the significance of the butterfly dream?
(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Chuang Tzu has a dream. He wakes up in the morning startled to find he is Chou. He doesn’t know whether Chou has dreamt he is a butterfly or if a butterfly has been dreaming it is Chou. The point of the story is to contemplate the nature of psychological transformation – the butterfly does this instinctively. It simply emerges from they cocoon to discover the joy of flight. A human emerges from the darkness of obscurity at some stage to discover
enlightenment, it is not a simple task and it certainly is not easy. The process of transformation is a struggle because the human has a mind and a mind is something that goes astray! It, the mind, can never be whole – it cannot see the front and back simultaneously – hence, the problem of division. So the journey of transformation for the human is to discover the ending of separateness. This can only be done when distinctions between this and that cease.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Wow! What about Wu Chen Pi’en?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The Wu Chen Pi’en is a classic text of spiritual alchemy.

(MORE)
6.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
It is basically a spiritual guide to penetrate the mysteries of the inner teachings of Taoism – and these are primarily concerned with eliminating the negative and destructive influences of temporal conditioning – so that the mind becomes empty.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
There is also the Huainanzi – the teachings of the masters of Huainan – sometimes called the book of leadership and strategy. It’s an incredible book.

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Yes. Anyone genuinely interested in the arts of leadership should become familiar with this collection of sayings. The king of Huainan was a ruler of a small principality within the empire of Han dynasty China – second century
BC. He was already quite a distinguished patron of learning when a group of traveling Taoist masters appeared at court. The teachings follow the ancient tradition of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu and reflect the distillation of the essence of Taoist wisdom and the arts of living using a variety of techniques. Written in a period of reconstruction
following centuries of civil wars, the teachings emphasise the deleterious effects of habitual desires, the negative impact of greed and aggression on human psychology, and the importance of self-knowledge.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Finally Geoff, there is the Art of War, compiled by a mysterious warrior-philosopher, it remains one of the most influential books on strategy in the world today. In essence, what do you think the book is about?

(Geoff to JB)
7.
GEOFF
When viewed in the light of the spiritual tradition of Taoism, the art of war is a study in the psychology of conflict. By understanding conflict, one develops the skills to diffuse or avoid it entirely.

(JB to Geoff
JB
How does that work in a practical
sense?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The beauty of the art of war as a philosophical treatise on avoiding conflict is that it can be applied to business as readily as it can be applied to the running of a household or a medical practice. Let’s take an example. The famous
general Jia Lin said, ‘The strength or weakness of a country depends on its generals. If the generals help the leadership and are thoroughly capable, then the country will be strong. If the generals do not help the leadership, and harbour duplicity in their hearts, then the country will be weak. Therefore it is imperative to be careful in
choosing people for positions of responsibility.’

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Excellent! I’ve also noticed that you place a lot of emphasis on finding a way for students to reconnect with their purpose.

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Without an awareness of purpose, life can seem like an endless struggle and sometimes this can lead to the experience of negative thoughts and feelings that inhibit and obstruct spiritual growth and development.

(JB to Geoff)
8.
JB
What do you think gets in the way of connecting with purpose? Are there warning signs that we might be able to recognise?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
There are many. Usually the warning is one of these: You either hate your job or see it as going nowhere fast. Your relationship is either in a rut or you both are going your own separate ways and too afraid to address it. Unresolved issues with mother and father or brother and sister guarantee resentment and blame, and strengthen a case for separation – which is counterproductive. You have money problems that don’t seem to ever go away despite your best attempts to do the right thing. You suffer from chronic health problems that are getting worse and you want to get fixed – as opposed to participating in the process and doing the inner work. Your circle of friends is exclusive and rarely expands to invite now experiences and a welcoming of fresh attitudes. Creativity suffers a loss because you don’t allow for recreation of any kind – and perhaps you have forgotten how to play. You have no relationship to your own sacred space and cannot find a point of sanctuary within that serves as a spiritual refuge. You think with your mind instead of your heart – sentimentality triumphs over love – the connection is therefore cut.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Your students insist that your contribution to the development of oriental medicine in the west has been to design a metaphysical approach that makes it possible to understand how the medicine works and involves the participant
directly. It is quite unique. How would you define this approach?

(Geoff to JB)
9.
GEOFF
There are three kinds of doctor. The first treats the symptoms. The second treats the cause. The third teaches the way of life – governed by the principles of balance and harmony. When something is wrong in the body and mind, it is because these principles have been neglected. Make the corrections and health can be restored.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Can you give some examples of how this works?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Sure. Unfulfilled desires lead to depression. This upsets the energy of the liver. When the energy of the liver is unbalanced, the ethereal soul suffers from neglect and this disconnects the sufferer from living the vision and supporting the life purpose. The medicine therefore consists of reconnecting the sufferer with vision and purpose. Once this is done, the depression lifts. This can be achieved through acupuncture, herbal medicine, effective strategy, and spiritual practice. In other words, to connect with vision, there has to be a sense of higher purpose.
Without this, most people get frustrated, become angry, and look for ways to engage the emotional volcano. The bottom line is that all physical disorders are spiritual disorders. All disorders have a relationship to the internal organs, and each of the organs stores an aspect of the mental-spiritual dynamic.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Wow. So what you’re saying is that psychology drives the body.

(Geoff to JB)
10.
GEOFF
Correct. And there are five aspects of psychology to consider in relation to the body-mind dynamic. Theses are: the ethereal soul stored in the liver, the spirit stored in the heart, the intellect stored in the spleen, the corporeal soul stored in the lung, and the willpower stored in the kidneys.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
What functions do each of them perform?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
The ethereal soul stored in the liver is to the psyche what the corporeal soul is to the body. Psychologically, the corporeal soul stored in the lung is the realm of the body unconscious – with its storehouse of sensations, emotions, passions, and feelings that represent the neurological intelligence of human beings.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Fine, that’s the ethereal soul and the corporeal soul. What about the heart spirit?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Psychologically, human beings are assaulted by a lack of intimacy in relationships that is exacerbated by the modern lifestyle and the ramifications of responding to it in a state of de-sensitisation. Many people in fact, use the technique of rationalising themselves into insensitivity, as Robert Aitken puts it, because the levels of shock experienced while living in the world are too intense – and numbing out is an effective, if not dangerous and ultimately destructive, coping mechanism. In simple terms, numbing out is a protective mechanism.

(MORE)
11.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
Unfortunately, activation of the rationalising policy inhibits the capacity for the heart spirit to be satisfactorily nourished.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
It would seem so. And the intellect? How does that work?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Psychologically, disturbances of the intellect stored in the spleen are caused by self-absorption. Worry and obsession are close relatives. Consequently, life experience cannot be transformed into ideas and intentions that
otherwise would become profound expressions of the heart spirit.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Willpower is a curious phenomenon. Where does it come into the equation in terms of oriental medicine?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
Psychologically, the most recognisable disturbance of the willpower stored in the kidneys is the person who is either caught up in compulsive activity or locked into the inertia of a stagnant lethargy. Without acknowledging
the existence and relevance of the ethereal soul, the corporeal soul, the intellect, the heart spirit, one is distracted by the illusion of self-importance. Drained by life instead of empowered by it, the strong urge to control the world because of fear dissipates any possibility for a sense of trust in the process of life to develop. The willpower is usually disturbed because most people push themselves to the brink of adrenal exhaustion. Without connecting to the source of vitality, artificial measures are relied on to sustain lifestyle

(MORE)
12.
GEOFF (CONT’D)
and along the way, people get lost in the traffic of competition and ambition.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
How amazing. What a model, Geoff. How many practitioners of oriental medicine do you think understand the mind in this way?

(Geoff to JB)
GEOFF
It depends on their training for the most part, I think. Those who have studied and trained in an environment dominated by the pursuit of academic objectives, tend to miss out on getting a taste for the spiritual tradition
that is the source of the real medicine. Certainly in terms of oriental medicine, Buddhism and Taoism play a big part in the successful and artful expression of diagnosis and treatment. At the end of the day, the quality of spiritual practice will determine the effectiveness of any interaction that takes place between the practitioner and the patient. This is why my favourite teacher told me, there are three kinds of doctor. The first treats the symptoms. He is an ordinary doctor. The second treats the cause. He is thinking bigger but still not getting it. The third teaches the way of life. He is solid as a rock on the inside and as flexible as mercury on the outside. Therefore he can develop endlessly.

(JB to Geoff)
JB
Perhaps this is something we could all aspire to. Thank you so much for the interview Geoff. We have covered much territory and there is certainly plenty of food for thought.

(JB to listeners)
13.
JB (CONT’D)
You heard it from the horse’s mouth folks. I think what we have discussed today provides a platform for deep contemplation. Till we meet again, this is James Brown signing off and fare ye well!

FADE OUT: